Curse

unienaule · May 25, 2006, 06:29 PM // 18:29

Either people complain because 1) There is no competition in PvE. or 2) Because they aren't winning the competition in PvE. You can't have it both ways. If there is to be competition, that means somebody has to lose.

Lykan · May 25, 2006, 06:30 PM // 18:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Loviatar

i know for a fact i will never see the inside of the uber elite area.

Why?
Most of the holding guilds are letting people taxi to these missions.

Go to Cavalon/ HzH.
Wait for someone to say "Taxi to Elite Mission"
Invite self.
Wait to get ported.

There you go.

I have never had trouble getting into these missions when the Holders are being nice, and most of 'em are at the moment. (Ty TC!!)

Cant see what all the moaning is about really.

Winstar · May 25, 2006, 06:37 PM // 18:37

I have to agree with the sentiment that ff kind of sucks. I was in a large alliance that had been controlling various towns but I left my guild over ff. They basically started demanding 10k donations a day in order to stay in. This was realatively simple before Brauer runs got nerfed as you could easily do a run in 2 minutes with the right setup. I had been doing a lot up until that point, about 120 donated, but I got sick of the grind...it felt like a work camp. Then 2 of my friends were kicked one day for not meeting the requirements so I left the guild. Furthermore, control of towns means very little. Unless you own House Zu or Cavalon the benefits are basically cheaper keys. Also, you can often get into the elite mission for free depending on who is controlling it, so control of one of the big towns doesn't seem to matter much either.

But despite the fact that I don't like ff, in the end there is no demand on you to be a serious faction farmer. You can completely ignore that aspect of the game with little consequence.

Dzan · May 25, 2006, 06:46 PM // 18:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by floplag

Dzan, did you pay more for the game than i did ?

i didnt think so

save your condescension for someone that understands it, cause i dont. this is a game.. some of us have lives, and jobs, and families .. and all kinds of real world activities .. and dont have the hours to devote to this kind of BS.. yet were still asked to pay the same price ?

in fact, youve actually proven my point .. # hours played versus quality of hours played ... your whole thesis is that just because you play more hours your entitled to something im not.. with ne bearing in skill, or accomplishments, or anything else. just, time played.

maybe i learn twice as fast as you .. maybe im better than you in half the time .. maybe im not.. either way, just because some 15 year old kid has twice the time to play as a working family man does... why does that person deserve more, or less .. on the same monies paid ?

especially when most people ideas about builds and character setups dont come from thier own minds, but some post on a bulletin board to the point that you have to have certain skills to get in a group in some areas .. when in most cases its 100% unnecessary and there are many way to do it... but just because someone reads something here, they think they know something ?

that, my friend, isnt skill or knowledge, thats a sheep that wouldnt know an original thought if it bit his arse !

this is a game..... not a job, not reality.. a game, that we all payed to play

You're right: it is a game. It's an RPG. Your progress is measured by accomplishments, whether that is experience points, items, completion percentage, pvp whatever.

The entire idea of the RPG genre is carrot on a stick, you are given a task you get a reward for doing it. The bigger the carrot you want, the longer the stick. You all want the biggest carrots with no sticks involved.

I paid $50 for Grand Turismo 3 when it came out. A week after the game came out I knew a guy who had every car unlocked. I didn't hardly have any. BUT WE BOTH PAID THE SAME AMOUNT OF MONEY FOR THE GAME!!! OMG THATS SO UNFAIR RIGHT?!!?

How is that senario any different? He wanted all the cars unlocked, so he did it. This guy wants to get into r9 pugs so he got his r9. Another guy wants access to the Deep so he gathers faction for his alliance.

I didn't have the time to unlock all the cars in GT, so I settled for only buying the ones I really wanted. You might not have the time to join an alliance that requires 20k faction a day per person, maybe you should adjust yourgoals to something more realistic for your own committment level.

floplag · May 25, 2006, 06:52 PM // 18:52

incorrect unienaule

choice 3, they dont want PvP overrunning PvE

if i wnated to play PvP, i would.. i dont want it as part of the PvE world. though id rather see some GvG challenge system for control of towns over the current system.. as long as they could limit others access to the PvE areas

lykan ... for me, that shouldnt be up to them. we are left at the mercy of a group that may, or may not be as benevolent as weve seen with other ruling alliances to date

Kakumei · May 25, 2006, 06:52 PM // 18:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by shadowfell

I seem to recall a very long, and tedious thread full of several rants, just by you about not even being able to access the missions unless you -were- in one of these powerhouse alliances the OP is speaking of. Of course, you later retracted your view, and left the thread /unsigned, but the fact was, you did feel that way at one point.

Why do people feel the need to instantly flame, so much in these threads?

As I stated in my post up there, reading the initial post was a little difficult--I did not realize he was specifically complaining about elite mission access. If this is indeed the case--this problem IS sorting itself out, now that alliances are commonly letting people into these missions. When I made my old thread, I had no idea that the community would come together in this way. While I still disagree with the whole faction farming for access thing, the situation is far more tolerable than I expected it to be, and now that Arenanet is coming up with alternative means of access, things are looking up all around.

In regards to his post, I assumed he was just complaining about not having an alliance at all--and really, save for potentially holding a city, there's very little reason to go find one to join.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stabber

Do you mean to say that you are not interested in joining the two great civil wars on the two sides of the Kurzick/Luxon neighborly dispute?

Are you sure you're a serious gamer?

Where the hell did this come from? Where did I claim to be a serious gamer?

A_Muppet · May 25, 2006, 06:53 PM // 18:53

The thing that irritates me about this (and the whole Favour thing) is that essentially, PVP is dictating where PvE players can play. That's annoying for me. It's like people being unable to play in the Hall of Heros until their district controls a PvE area in factions. Things like the Crystalline sword reward for the HoH: okay, no problem with that sort of thing, but entire areas being shut off unless people from, essentially, an utterly different section of the game are doing well is a real pest. These 'elite missions' are just another example of this... stupidity for lack of a better word. Far better to give the alliances who control them some other form of benefit, like access to a unique armourer or weaponscrafter.

Cymboric Treewalker · May 25, 2006, 07:19 PM // 19:19

For anyone who has not found the right alliance contact me... we have some serious faction farmers, but also a serious group of relaxed PvE players...

<-- that is my in-game name.

Lord Dobo · May 25, 2006, 07:23 PM // 19:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lykan

Why?
Most of the holding guilds are letting people taxi to these missions.

Go to Cavalon/ HzH.
Wait for someone to say "Taxi to Elite Mission"
Invite self.
Wait to get ported.

There you go.

I have never had trouble getting into these missions when the Holders are being nice, and most of 'em are at the moment. (Ty TC!!)

Cant see what all the moaning is about really.

I predict we will see a colapse of the nice guilds and are going to have to start shelling out the big bucks soon, unless it's true that we will be able to get in through a seperate route. I've talked to some of these guys (TC) and they are missing out on being able to get jadite for themselves. It's a big hole in their pocket, and as noble as their cause is, they are going to splinter under the pressure. They can only go so long before they will want to actually play the game. What we will be left with is a batch of guilds who are in it for the rewards. After all, they lose money on dumping faction. I only keep 1 faction point in my guild. We'll never be able to compete being a small guild. Why waste the gold?

I don't understand this resentment towards the "casual players." There are two types of "casual" in my opinion. One is someone who doesn't play much. For some reason it is assumed that this makes them bad players. I find that attitude odd because I see people who play non-stop who might as well have a hole in the head for as much as they understand their class. And the second type plays a lot, but doesn't care to get involved in a race to NOT play the game, or who doesn't care for the company of morons. I hench most of the game, pick up on the ins and outs of the missions, and turn around and help out my guildmates and sometimes the nicer people in the community. I have made well over a million in gold over the course of the year, have several max weapons with max mods, all hand crafted trough trades and drops, and have henched some of the hardest missions in both games (including droks and gayla hatchery.) But I understand the futility of trying to compete with a conglomeration of impersonal kids (let's face it, these guilds must have a lot of time on their hands to succeed versus all the other guilds with lots of time on their hands as well... it becomes a race to prove who has the least going on in their lives.) If getting into these elite missions were skill based, I know many dozens of players scattered around the community who would be in in no time.

I have to rant a sec on what this is doing to guilds as a whole for a sec. I've seen smaller guilds lose members because some of their players want to get in on owning a town. So they look for a larger guild, and end up doing nothing but farming all day long. Farming is fine with me, but only if it actually gets you something. But friendships become strained so that people can dump faction into a guild that will never actually hold a town and they end up making nothing in return. Seems like a side effect that I bet Anet didnt plan on... the general animosity that comes with guild splitting.

One last thing (I know that it seems that I go back and forth on this post, but I can be somewhat of a hypocrite) but I remember something about Anet's plans to make each game themed. This one is themed towards competition, and others will likely not be so PvP based. Geez I can only hope. While I find the competition to be fun at times, I'm more into PvE. I like the exploration, the quest for a good drop, the camaraderie that comes through overcoming obstacles. I can only hope that Anet will not let us down, will not forget that hundreds of thousands of people bought their game for the PvE side, that they are shooting themselves in the foot by continuing to provide only PvP undates. (Fixing a bug is not a PvE update... it's fixing a mistake.)

Damn, I never have something simple to say.

Lord Dobo · May 25, 2006, 07:32 PM // 19:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dzan

You're right: it is a game. It's an RPG. Your progress is measured by accomplishments, whether that is experience points, items, completion percentage, pvp whatever.

The entire idea of the RPG genre is carrot on a stick, you are given a task you get a reward for doing it. The bigger the carrot you want, the longer the stick. You all want the biggest carrots with no sticks involved.

I paid $50 for Grand Turismo 3 when it came out. A week after the game came out I knew a guy who had every car unlocked. I didn't hardly have any. BUT WE BOTH PAID THE SAME AMOUNT OF MONEY FOR THE GAME!!! OMG THATS SO UNFAIR RIGHT?!!?

How is that senario any different? He wanted all the cars unlocked, so he did it. This guy wants to get into r9 pugs so he got his r9. Another guy wants access to the Deep so he gathers faction for his alliance.

I didn't have the time to unlock all the cars in GT, so I settled for only buying the ones I really wanted. You might not have the time to join an alliance that requires 20k faction a day per person, maybe you should adjust yourgoals to something more realistic for your own committment level.

Wow, so true yet so wrong.

Yes, you have to work towards a goal in an rpg, and it can take time. But if you set down your controller and walk away from GT3, you don't come back to find all of your time spent in the game erased. Because that is what happens here. If you don't spend every day farming, along with 999 other people you most likely don't even know, you can't get that nice reward. And neither do around a million other GW players. Easy to be elitist when making metaphors that make no sense.

Crap, I hate flame... but it makes no sense to me that people can't see what is wrong with a system that rewards a very small minority. If say, 1/5th of people could get into the content they payed for through right of skill I'd be behind you 100%, but this system rewards slackers... oddly enough, those who can't farm everyday are out making the money to pay for this game. Way to isolate your source of money Anet.

Dzan · May 25, 2006, 08:16 PM // 20:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lord Dobo

Wow, so true yet so wrong.

Yes, you have to work towards a goal in an rpg, and it can take time. But if you set down your controller and walk away from GT3, you don't come back to find all of your time spent in the game erased. Because that is what happens here. If you don't spend every day farming, along with 999 other people you most likely don't even know, you can't get that nice reward. And neither do around a million other GW players. Easy to be elitist when making metaphors that make no sense.

Like I said, you have the wrong goals. Your goals are incompatible with your means. If you want something you can't have, you have to work that out yourself.

It all boils down to entitlement, you spent $50 and you feel entitled to the elite missions. I'm sure people in the Taiwan server would like to go to the Fissure of Woe, too. If you want it, make it happen. Heaven forbid people get rewarded for effort.

wsmcasey · May 25, 2006, 08:21 PM // 20:21

Well, I'm between Guilds again.

I just tried out a Factions guild after being out of a Guild for 2 months. Needless to say, this Guild felt very cold and uninviting to me. The Guild leader started naggin me for 5k faction everyday and if I used my hard earned faction to buy Jade I got yelled at! I wouldn't exactly call myself a casual player since I play almost every night for 4-5 hours, but this is definately NOT what I want from a Guild.

The Guild had an alliance with 5 other guilds and the total faction for the alliance was a little over 100k faction. It just seems completely retarded to dump hard earned faction into an alliance that doesn't stand a chance of holding a town, especially when the other Guilds in the alliance havent invested as much faction as your own Guild.

I just want a relaxed PvE Guild that enjoys playing the game, is that so much to ask?

tear · May 25, 2006, 08:27 PM // 20:27

Here's the thing about people whining that they paid for the game and are entitled to everything: You're not. You deserve absolutely nothing but opportunity - well, maybe not even that, but you have it. You have the opportunity to play less "casually" and get what and where you want, same as everyone else. It's obvious that more time invested equals a greater grasp on the game, and mindless grinding or not, those that invest heavily get what they work for, as they should. I myself don't have the time to faction farm all day, but that's my choice, and this spoiled opinion so many people seem to have is so lame.

I'm basically just saying the same thing Dzan is saying I guess, but still.

dreamhunk · May 25, 2006, 08:29 PM // 20:29

rpg players don't want any competition in PvE. they want adventure and story. they want role playing! it is pvp players that want competition. rpg by nature are not competive. Once you compete it no longer becomes a rpg but a pvpve.

I want to be able to play the game i paid for!

floplag · May 25, 2006, 09:08 PM // 21:08

DZan, apparently you cant be bothered to read or are missing the point, your own arguments dont even support your position on this.

im still waiting for some logical reason that im not afforded the same game as you for the same money ?

if we were paying an hourly fee, thats one thing, but since we paid the same price, we should get the same product

and you keep saying we have the same opportunity.. when the reality is that we dont. smaller casual guilds do not have even close to a chance to dethrone the 1000 player faction farmhouses.. and you know that as well as i do. and please dont try to tell me thats my choice to work and have a family over a game, you cant be that far gone

ill say this, if thats what GWs future is, ill be not part of it

Ken Dei · May 25, 2006, 09:28 PM // 21:28

1.) Benevolence is not unlimited. The Free Ferry to the Elite Missions will probably stop eventually, or will be intermitant at best. Therefore, having a benevolent Alliance, to which I send my Kudos, does not solve the inheirant problem. Hopefully, A.Net's "alternate access" will.

2.) We all paid for the same game, therefore we paid for the same opportunity to access all content. Before you twist the words for a stupid elitist arguement, let me finish. Opportunity being classified as the ability to access the same content throught different play styles. Skill, or Grind, preferabley skill OVER grind, as was the original intent of GW as a whole.

The point is, being "good" is barely applicable in the case of farming, and only in the sense when you do it with an original build that conquers a difficult task.

Faction Farming requires niether an original build nor is it difficult. And anyone who thinks they're "better" or "elite" because they do the same thing over and over, are wrong. In truth, they're just mindless lemmings, like every other Faction Farmer; and their arguements hold about that much value too.

Beat_Go_Stick · May 25, 2006, 11:24 PM // 23:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by floplag

DZan, apparently you cant be bothered to read or are missing the point, your own arguments dont even support your position on this.

im still waiting for some logical reason that im not afforded the same game as you for the same money ?

if we were paying an hourly fee, thats one thing, but since we paid the same price, we should get the same product

and you keep saying we have the same opportunity.. when the reality is that we dont. smaller casual guilds do not have even close to a chance to dethrone the 1000 player faction farmhouses.. and you know that as well as i do. and please dont try to tell me thats my choice to work and have a family over a game, you cant be that far gone

ill say this, if thats what GWs future is, ill be not part of it

floplag,

Stop. You had a great point in the OP and you've let the comments sway you away from it. This isn't about the elite missions nor whether or not you have access to them. If you are like me, you don't really care.

What it's about is that Faction is serving no purpose other than to be farmed. There is no creative way to get it. There is, in fact, no reason to get it other than to control a town and push lines that do not matter in the slightest (I honestly don't even know why we should care about those lines......they are like that stupid button on Lost).

Additionally, should a player decide they do care about getting faction and moving the lines, they are doomed to just do the same thing (mainly running a parcel to its destination) over and over if they don't want that to be all they do all night.

I don't care if I ever see the stupid elite mission, tbh. What I do care about is the fact that the only new feature we got with factions was a new thing to farm and a new reason to farm it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cymboric Treewalker

For anyone who has not found the right alliance contact me... we have some serious faction farmers, but also a serious group of relaxed PvE players...

<-- that is my in-game name.

I may take you up on that. I recently lost my Guild when they joined an Alliance that wanted 2-4k faction a day from me. I've been with these guys for 5 months, helping others, playing with them, and they kicked my ass out for not farming Kurzick Faction for the Alliance.

I guess by "making new friends" they meant separating the farmers from the non-farmers

Buoyancy · May 25, 2006, 11:33 PM // 23:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dzan

Why do "casual" players feel they deserve to go to elite missions, get in good tombs groups or anything else that requires dedication? Where does this sense of entitlement come from?

Why do "hardcore" players feel that they deserve to go to elite missions, get in good tombs groups or anything else that requires dedication instead of other people? Where does this sense of elitism come from?

As for the answer to your question. Casual players expect their multiplayer games to be as accessible as their single player games. This is nothing more than demanding good gameplay, which, unfortunately, the teenagers who have never played anything but MMOs don't know anything about.

Buoyancy · May 25, 2006, 11:35 PM // 23:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dzan

The entire idea of the RPG genre is carrot on a stick, you are given a task you get a reward for doing it. The bigger the carrot you want, the longer the stick. You all want the biggest carrots with no sticks involved.

You are quite ignorant, aren't you. The entire idea of the RPG genre is to complete the story that is put in front of you. This usually involves making your character more powerful. You are confusing MMO games, which are nothing more than timesinks designed to addict players, with actual RPG games.

Buoyancy · May 25, 2006, 11:37 PM // 23:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dzan

It all boils down to entitlement, you spent $50 and you feel entitled to the elite missions.

Please explain to us all why we aren't entitled to access the so-called "elite" missions. I could use a good laugh from somebody who is obviously a teenager (ie. a person with unlimited free time and no responsibilities).